Comments for page "Red Hat Claims AMQP"

equivocation

Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:48:36 +0000

Brian,

You repudiate yourself.

Pieter quotes you as saying "Red Hat teamed up with one of its customers, JP Morgan Chase (JPMC), to create an open protocol standard around messaging, AMQP." NOTE - "to create an open protocol" .. not a working group.

Adrian says "I can confirm everything that Pieter says about where and how AMQP originated. iMatix was at the heart of the project from the start, and RH wasn't."

As a corollary to the comments from Pieter and Adrian, I say, to you Briand: Until you speak the truth you will not win respect. When you stop publishing documents and blog posts which *everyone* (including the senior dudes at JPMorgan) describes as Redhat claiming they invented AMQP, then you'll be on slightly more solid ground.

At this stage, you could profit from making a short, clear, statement: "Redhat did not *create* AMQP" on your blog. You could also explain that the working group was created by more than two companies, not just Redhat and JPMorgan. It's up to you. JPMorgan created a community - more power to them - we are all just *parts* of that community.

alexis

I don't claim that Red Hat invented AMQP

Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:17:25 +0000

Sorry for the late response as I've just returned from vacation. Anyway, I think I'm clear that Red Hat didn't invent AMQP and that work on AMQP occurred well before Red Hat's involvement. The position paper which I was requested to submit to the NSF was on how can you create a model for sustainable software development models around open source software. I point to the AMQP working group and the AMQP standard—for which Red Hat was certainly at the start and pivotal in helping create-as a model for how that happens. Note that I say "Red Hat and JPMC created a legal contract to form the AMQP working group"-not AMQP itself. The working group and open process we have that includes vendors and customers and to which you contribute is what is important for "models of how to build sustainable cyberinfrastructure software."

Note that the other example I give around development models (and which I highlight in my blog intro) is around Condor, which existed for 20 years before Red Hat's involvement. In neither case do I claim that Red Hat invented the technology. But, Red Hat did have an important role in shaping the model for broader participation and adoption around these initiatives, and that's what I highlight.

iMatix certainly deserves credit for its early work on the AMQP software and as being a founding member of the working group as well. But, please take my writing in context—Red Hat does not claim to have invented AMQP and never will. That would be counter-productive to our desire to have a true interoperability standard.

(no title)

Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:31:00 +0000

From long before the day in August 2004 when called me and asked, "Pieter, how would you like to help me make a new open protocol for messaging?", AMQP was John's goal. This was a protocol he sought deliberately, carefully, and at a non-trivial risk and cost to JPMorganChase (though the risks were in hindsight well controlled). I like to think iMatix wrote the words of what went out the door in 2006, but in fact the original protocol emerged from intense, deliberate collaboration between the engineers in JPMC, and iMatix, and others who added their piece. It is of great credit to John, and his management in JPMorganChase, that they took the long vision, and understood the importance of getting this right. AMQP was no accident, and I'm proud to have been there from the early days of the project.

Today, AMQP is in the hands of a diverse, competent workgroup of brilliant people. iMatix bet its business on AMQP, from 2004 onwards, and we're totally, utterly committed to seeing it become the standard for enterprise middleware.

iMatix was the first partner in AMQP

Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:03:21 +0000

I agree with Adrian.

Pieter was the first partner in AMQP, before it went public. If you read about his other technical work on iMatix, you can see why. He has a passion for technology, and a great way with words.

That's what we needed when we worked together to create AMQP - not just code, but a description which could be used by others. RabbitMQ proved that when they wrote their broker from the protocol specification alone.

It was also JPM's intent from the beginning to make AMQP open, to work with many partners and to pour in decades of their own real-world messaging experience.

I find it distasteful that some are trying to re-write the history of AMQP for their own purposes.

AMQP is the product of many good people working hard in many companies; Pieter was among the first.

Thanks

Fri, 27 Mar 2009 08:00:05 +0000

I really appreciate the comments.

I can corroborate all of Pieter's assertions as to the real origin of AMQP

Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:55:00 +0000

Having been very close to this project since its inception, I can confirm everything that Pieter says about where and how AMQP originated. iMatix was at the heart of the project from the start, and RH wasn't.

Not at all relevant to the main thrust of your post

Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:42:04 +0000

And it's coming from a random internet person, so is of marginal value, but my condolences on the loss of your child. Having experienced similar, I can appreciate how much this project cost you and your wife, and why Red Hat's usurping of it would rankle somewhat.

Ah...

Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:25:13 +0000

OK, I can see a date if I look at your blog's main page, but it does not appear in the template for the individual article. So people coming here directly don't see a date.

Date?

Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:23:39 +0000

Hi Pieter

It would be very helpful if your blog template included the date! You point to a Brian Che article that's (now) 5 months old. Alexis just tweeted the URL of this article, but I have no way of knowing when you wrote this. I find all the above outrageous - actually this kind of behavior makes me furious - but maybe this is an issue that's already old news.